I thought Hillary was alright…although the focus did seem to be on Obama and let me tell you his supporters were in an uproar after the debate. Truthfully he probably seemed most uncomfortable at a little hesitant at this debate. It is the first time he really had to deal with the Revrend Wright comments in a very public venue. He did make the speech …but there were no questions after that.

I did wonder where that AMerican flag question came from it was so out of left field. But, then I have to remember they are in PA, I tend to think of Philly but they have really rural areas where people are very patriotic…YAWN!!! I am really less concerned with wearing an American flag and more concerned witha truly universal health care system and repairing our relationships with other foreign countries. At this point I am a little ashamed with the state of our country and am less than enthused about representing America…now that does not mean I am “glad the chickens came home to roost!!” But, I do think we need to put out country back on track to being the leader of the Free world!!!

OS (OBAAMA supporters) were also up in arms because they felt like HRC gave the Republican party ammunition to go after Obama when (and if?) he wins the nomination. I thought there sentiments were non-sensical. Let me make this clear just because GWB is a dummy the Republican Party already knows Barry and Hill’s weaknesses and they are just waiting until one of them is chosen before they go into full attack mode.

The reality is there is still a race. Yes, it is true Barry hasn’t been tested by the media up to this point and he got a little taste of what he can expect in the general election. BEleive me Charlie Gibson is a lamb compared to the moderators that have yet to come!!!

Anyway McCain is whistiing Dixie while we are at each other’s throats…sad, sad, sad!!!

Did you catch the debate last night? I think I turned it off after 30 minutes, it was the most ridiculous debate I have ever seen. I wanted to hear about the issues and instead we got junk.

But, I respect you both immensely and am happy that African Americans are involved and on the forefront on both sides of this race!

Truthfully, I can’t promise to vote for Barack but I will keep POTF and Onyx in mind before I make that decision!!

I think both campaigns have said things that have left me scratching my head at times. I think having 6 weeks in-between Primaries has really taken its toll on both campaigns but ultimately PA, NC, and Indiana are really going to decide the nomination and I am ready to rally behind one nominee at this point.

I am not going to try and persuade you to think differently about Baracks comments about small town voters. If you get a chance, check this out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/hillary-clinton-on-workin_n_97017.html

I personally don’t think he is. I like both Hillary and Obama and god it is tough to root for one over the other because they are great candidates and a better choice than John Mccain. This campaign reminds me of the great Frederick Douglas and Elizabeth Cady Stanton. Take a look at this link: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/weekinreview/13leibovich.html?ex=1357880400&en=5230e89778ad2fe2&ei=5124&partner=delicious&exprod=delicious

Hillary is not Bill, but Bill Clinton’s legacy…which Hillary bases a lot of her experience from the campaign will be linked to her..the good and the bad. She will have to defend Bill’s legacy at every turn in the campaign if she is the nominee. I expect that to happen and I am sure she will be tough to defend against it.

I am going to keep twisting your arm We need your vote in the general election and we need both you and POTW’s passion to get more and more people out to vote. What usually dooms the democrats is that many of the younger voters would come to the rally’s or the concerts but would stay home because they didn’t think their votes would count. We need all of you in order to win in November!

I didn’t take offense at all to your comments, I love to see people passionate about the direction of their country. And if all of us can ultimately agree, to disagree, and support the nominee in the end then we will win in November over John Mccain. The Republicans are going to take their personal shots..did you see the comments from the Kentucky Congressman referring to Obama as “Boy”? So you see the Republicans are already starting their madness. I am glad we have your energy and we are going to need all of it from all of us to win in November.

Minamo, i am sorry about your family members struggle with mental illness. I truly believe that although Hillary has not been diagnosed with a mental illness to my knowledge, she is displaying characteristics and her lies have been documented. Many people, including the media are questioning her credibility and have been questioning it for years now. Some say Barack would not be where he is if he was not Black. Well I submit, Mrs. Clinton would not be where she is if she had not been married to Bill Clinton…So that argument for both candidates is a mute point. They are who they are and are actually in the position they are because of these ingrediants. I’ve even compared resumes. Have you done that?

Anyway I do apoligize if I offended you in anyway because offense is not necessary to make an argument. So with that Peace & Blessings! Have a great day.

Your response to POTF very on point but I doubt it will make a difference once you have reached a certain level of disrepec it is hard to come back.

I will give you one thing perhaps I was too harsh when I said I think Obama is a phony …maybe just his supporters (LOL). All joking aside I think the word disingenuous is more fitting. That whole Uncle Ray Ray and Cousin Pookie really rubbed me the wrong way. The truth is I don’t think he needs to do those type of things just so he can be accepted by the African American community. It is beyond offensive.

At the same time I don’t think Hillary should have to lie about being sniper stories to prove how strong she is. Frankly, I am disappointed in both campaigns at this point.

My only real issue with your last post is the comparison of Obama and Bill Clinton’s remarks. I have read both and analyzed them…maybe overanalyzed but still I find them to be very different in content. Maybe the thought behind the comments were similar but the way they came across is different. Obama’s reference to being bitter, clinging to guns, religion and anti-immigation are just offensive. Evenif he beleives they are true he should have known better.

This is where one of the major issues lies Obama made his comments in a “closed” door meeting with wealthy supporters.

Bill Clinton’s comment were made in the Sunday Los Angeles Times a very public arena that shows he is willing to put these things out there even if it might cause a fuss.

The other problem…Hillary is not Bill and she is the one running for president. His comments in 1991 hold no bearing on Barack’s poor choice of words.

you can keep twisting my arm but as long as I continuously have to hear the “Obama can do no wrong” slogan I find it harder and harder to see that becoming a reality. But, you have about 8 months to convince me Unless Hillary can pull of the unthinkable!!

When Bill Clinton ran for President in 92′, he lived in Arkansas and I lived in Michigan so none of us know these candidates as well as we would like. What I know is that he was running on change, taking the country in a different direction from Poppa Bush, and helping out the middle class.

You stand by your candidate and that is fine..and you are right, I do hope you change for the general because the Democratic party is going to need both sides to come together in order to win.

I have found both sides to be out of line, and taking personal attacks when it isn’t needed. I think we have to be able to separate the bloggers negative comments from the candidates. I don’t think it would make sense to dislike Obama just because he may have extreme supporters. The same applies to the Hillary Clinton supporters, and I have heard some crazy things come from the Hillary supporters as well. I believe that is why we have to keep it focused on the issues and not this other stuff. I don’t have to attack Obama to make my argument as to why I support Hillary and we should be able to agree to disagree at the end of the day.

Now as far as racism and sexism, again we come from different experiences. You are correct, I will never know what it is like be a woman and you will never know what it is like to be a black man either. I grew up with strong southern black women and I can only understand what has been explained from their years of living during Jim Crow. If you read what I posted previously, I never tried to play a game of the two, I spoke of my experience and just that..my experience. I think both are ugly flaws of America that we have to deal with. And I agree, who you support should be a personal choice indeed and respected. Regarding Obama’s comments regarding working class, Bill Clinton stated the same thing when he ran for President so I think this controversy is another attempt to keep the focus off of the real issues, in my opinion.

It is great to have a respectful dialogue with you as well. I think all of us can debate issues and not this other stuff that is front page news which answer the questions about the economy, healthcare, etc. I hope that I can keep twisting your arm a little, you will support the nominee at the end of the day (whomever it will be

I had to go back and read my previous posts because I don’t believe in anything I have written on this blog, have I ever asked you for your respect or of my advice. So I am not sure why my name was pulled into that. All of us can support the person that we think can do the best job. I think the problem all of us are facingis that the debate has changed from real issues to personal attacks which is never constructive. Instead of focusing on Healthcare, the war, the home mortgage crisis, Iran, Economy, Recession that we are in, etc. These are the things that we should be discussing, not who is a sociopath or a phony. It appears that most supporters are reacting to what the surrogates are saying and not the candidates.

“you support a habitual liar for President of the United States” – POTF; We are discussing politicians aren’t we? Politicians tell the public what they are going to do to get elected and 9 times out of 10 they don’t deliver so wouldn’t that make most in elected office liars then? If that comment is regarding Bill Clinton, the fact of the matter is that when Bill Clinton was taken through the Lewinsky Scandal, he was well into his 2nd term. Many of us had already cast our votes for him so that is a very unfair statement to make especially since we can’t take our votes back. Bill Clinton had the support of the african american community and many of our elders at the time (Coretta Scott King, John Lewis, Jesse Jackson, etc), now had the truth came out before the 96 election, I am sure he would have lost a good percentage of votes.

To say that I vote blindly is outrageous, particulary when we don’t know one another or what our values are. I vote on the issues and who has the best vision, the best outline of what they are going to put forth whether it is a ward leader, state legislator, senator, or President. I am supporting Hillary because she has offered detailed plans and how she will pay for them. I am a home owner and a small business owner and the mortgage crisis and healthcare is a huge issue for me and my employees. I have been to both websites for Hillary and Obama and read every detail of their plans and Hillary’s makes more sense for my life, and my employees and will save me more in the end. As I have stated before, if Barack is the nominee I have no problem casting a vote for him in the General because either candidate is better that John Mccain and I would be just as enthusiastic campaigning for Barack (if he is the nominee) in the fall. I don’t believe in tearing the other candidate down just so my choice wins, I think that only benefits the Republicans in the end and I don’t want to give them any additional ammunition.

In regards to Clinton sending surrogates to a organized dinner, Barack has done the exact same thing in DC. Before the Potomac Primary, surrogates came and spoke to us, not Barack. That is the nature of politics. Barack was campaigning out West at the time and surrogates are going to build their candidate up no matter who it is. I have never seen Barack walk through the hood in Southeast or Northeast Washington, DC like the Queen of England did when she visited Washington, DC a year ago…talk about a odd vision. But I don’t knock Barack for that, and I don’t get into the personal attacks on him at all. For me as a voter, it is about the issues and that alone.

I know that there is nothing I can say to convince you to vote for Hillary and that is fine. All of us are going to support one candidate over the other. To say that Obama isn’t part of the establishment is just silly. Look at your home and look at his multi-million dollar mansion and that should answer that question. Barack is a part of the establishment , and no matter the outcome of this election..he will be launched up the ladder of the establishment. But being a part of the establishment isn’t evil. It is what you make of it for the better good of the people that you serve. If you use the opportunity to help those that are struggling to live their dreams, then you are doing good work.

Let’s not make any mistake in one thing: Neither Clinton nor Barack can win without the help of the other’s supporters. Hillary will not win withouth the youth vote and the African-American community, Barack can’t win without the Female vote (particulary over 45). The problem is that both sides have decided to steer from the issues and focus on personal attacks. And that is going to doom our party if it continues to the convention.

I don’t think Obama is a phony or a chameleon like others have said. I think he is just as ready to be president as Hillary is. I just think Hillary has better initiatives across the board and how she plans to pay for them and that is why I am voting for her.

This is not about intelligence this is about the fact that you are trying to make a psychological assessment and have no credentials…completely out of order. Yes, you don’t need to earn my respect but have enough respect for those who truly suffer from mental ilness that’s my point!!! I don’t perceive you to be a docotr because even they do serious analysis before coming to these conclusions!

Yes, OBAAMA speaks so well this is clear but that’s all he does is talk and use rhetoric. I hope you got a chance to the link about saying he was a political socipath. I listen to him and my intuition tells me he is a phony.

You talk about Hillary sending people to your neighborhood but what about Barack going to black neighborhoods talking about getting Uncle Pookie and RAY RAY voting. Is he serious? He has no clue abou the African american experience or the streets and should not be making those type of references just so he can fit in with a partuicular community!! Round the way Barry…right!!!

Also, you know how you were offended about Hillary sending people to your neighborhood. Hillary didn’t come to my hood either in fact neither did Barack…they don’t go to a hell of alot of places. I suppose you have met Senator Obama right?

My intuition is that he is a phony and a chameleon trying to fit in with everyone but none of that is the real him!!!!

I have done my investigation and …yes that is the problem.

He’s only on TV 24/7 and has a little website called http://www.barackobama.com. You’re a smart person do your own investigation…that’s the problem.

Again Senator Clinton strikes me as a little mental to say to the entire world that one day she was under sniper fire and then to continue it when other people present and military officials said that was not the case, seems a bit mental to me. If she is that tired morning, noon and night then obviously that 3am call would be dangerous in her hands. Both of you have turned a blind eye to her indiscretions, which tells me you blindly vote and that’s dangerous as well. If you don’t know much about Barack Obama, find out because he is right close to becoming the President of the country you live in. I’m not only talking to you but other people as well who are are doing the same thing. I liked many of the candidates that were in the race, like Joe Biden, Richardson, Edwards, Huckabee! I even considered Senator Clinton for the job, but when she continually sent others to my hood to speak for her instead of coming like all the other viable candidates…I was extremely put off. When she sent African American surrogates to the NAACP banquet to talk about our rich African American history, the Civil Rights movement and defiance of the odds and then attached Clinton’s name to our history…as if..she was in line with MLK, John Lewis and the likes..i must say I was extremely offended and insulted. My reasons are personal and I did not go by what other people have said….Other people have only confirmed what I already knew and experienced. So I respect your right to choice and how you arrived there, I just happen to think you are wrong regarding your assessment…as you feel I am… so be it. I’m not mad at you and I do not blame you for what other Clinton supporters have said to me, that would not be fair now would it. All I have to say, we will see history made or great history made…Obama is great history in the making. Someone who has risen above the establishment without being married into it, born or raised into it…that’s undeniable great history…

and BTW democrat or not, i will not support anyone who laughs in my face after being caught in a lie. Obama included. I am not with that Democratic school of thought. I am Democrat but an independent thinker 1st. I don’t have a problem with people making mistates..we all do, but i have a problem with me following behind the mistake.

Again I stress I am in New York and I can not support someone I don’t know at all. Maybe that will change if he wins but I doubt it.

In reference to what I have heard from Obama supporters PLEASE PLEASE do not even compare the things that i have been said about these candidates. I am talking about only own personal exchanges I can’t even imagine if I brought up the stuff I have seen on other political websites. this is the nature of politics but I have a right to a choice and I respect OBAAMA supporters right up until they cross the line and start making grandiose assessments like calling Hillary a sociopath. A sister can only take so much.

Again to stress my point I am not necessarily saying sexism is worse I am saying it is ignored. racism is in your face and often easily recognized unless you are an undercover racist which do still exist. But, when was the last time someone was lynched it is a very rare occurrence in this country. I am sure it’s happened over the last few years but it is not accepted. As an African American woman i have been followed around in stores too and been in cars that were pulled over because I was with an African American male so let’s not play the African American man vs. woman experience game. Both of us have had difficult experiences but as a woman you will never know what it feels like to be inferior based on color and gender. So I ask that you respect my viewpoint on the sexism issue and try and put yourself in my shoes. Choosing a candidate was not an easy decision for me but I weighed my options and came to my own decision. THAT SHOULD BE RESPECTED regardless of whether you are a HILLARY OR BARAACK supporter.

As for my decision not to vote for someone I don’t think can do the job it stands for NOW. The Democrats will have chosen a candidate that they think can beat McCain. Obama is not my personal choice and I can’t see myself getting behind his recent comments about working class Americans….I shudder thinking about McCain in office but my party knows what they are doing…Right??? The same party that dropped Howard Dean like a hot potato in 2004 because he acted a little loopy at an event!! The same people who didn’t vote for Gore in 2000 because he wasn’t emotionally connected or “inspiring”!!! LOOK AT HIM NOW… I truly am proud of at least one Democrat and that is rare these days.

If AL Gore entered the race today Clinton and Obama would be in big trouble!!!

Onyx: it has been nice to have a civil conversation about this race and surprise, surprise you are a fellow Hillary supporter. You challenge some of my decisions but respectfully so I give you props. I may reconsider my decision not to vote in the GE but it would take a lot of work n the Part of Senator OBAAMA and his supporters!

I seriously am considering becoming an independent

let me offer you two pieces of advice when posting. Please try and read ALL of the previous posts before responding. Twice today you erroneously addressed other people when in actuality you were responding to something I said. In the last comment to Onyx you were commenting on a remark that was made by me but being addressed by Onyx!

My other advice please try and be original when making comments. I found it very surprising that instead of addressing my comments about your boy Obama you went on a tangent about Hillary being a sociopath. So I said to myself wow this is really detailed and let me see if maybe you came up with an original idea…but NO it wasn’t. Below is a link to other “intelligent” people who have made the same assertion as yourself. . Oh yeah and I also added a link to an article referencing Senator Obama as a political sociopath…ENJOY!!!

You see I don’t play these silly mind games because I am not a professional. You can hae Hillary all you want but for you to say she might be a nice person at the end of the day and then in the next posting call her a sociopath. Very, very sneaky (POTF) getting me to think you might actually be a reasonable and honest supporter. KUDOS to you for fooling me! But it won’t happen again!

I am still waiting on your comments about OBAAMA…you have plenty to say regarding an unprofessional assessment of Clinotn yet can’t respond to OBAAMA’s clear issues!

http://westcoastsuccess.wordpress.com/2008/04/06/is-hillary-clinton-a-sociopath-we-go-throught-the-checklist/

http://dailymusings.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!EBAB74DA8F94C559!5257.entry

I am a hillary supporter but I just don’t agree with you on the point of Hillary having to lie. You stand on your principles and let the chips fall where they may. She didn’t need to embelish at all, the fact that Hillary has more experience should speak for itself. She has been to many countries since serving in government compared to Obama’s so this was an issue that didn’t need the embelishment. The fact that Hillary was over in Bosnia speaks for itself…it reminded me of Margaret Thatcher, the Iron Lady, from Great Britain that stood fast with Reagan during the Cold War. You should read Margaret Thatchers autobiography, you would be hard pressed to find any embelishment in her career as a politician and she did battle against the men with no excuses. So the statement that Hillary has to lie just doesn’t fly with me.

As a black male, I am not going to say racism is worse than sexism. I can only tell you from my experience. I have family members from the south that were attacked for being black, I have been followed around the stores because the assumption is that all black males steal. I have seen people cross the street when I am walking down the sidewalk because you know, all of us black men steal and rob people. I have been pulled over (hell I have lost count) with not one ticket issued but a million reasons given as to why I was pulled over. So, we can go back and forth about which is worse but is that productive? Each of us walk a different path and have different experiences. I have family members that were lynched in the south during the 70’s so my opinion is going to differ from yours.

To the point of Obama’s momentum and rock star status, anyone that remembers or was a part of Bill Clinton’s first run for president remember the same feeling. He was the change candidate in 92 and democrats have been pretty happy with the results Bill was able to achieve while President. Barack is running on the same message that Bill Clinton ran on back in 92′ so why was it a good platform for Bill, but not Obama I am not sure.

“OBAAMA supporters have done and said things to me on posts and in person that I find to be deplorable. If you want to support your candidate fine. But, don’t think you are morally superior or at least that your candidate has no faults. I stand by my decision to not vote in the general election but I wish the party the best of luck in November if Obama should win.” – Again, I am a Hillary Supporter but we have to be fair here. For every Obama supporter that are saying nasty things, there is a Hillary supporter doing the exact same thing so lets keep it real and fair here. Anytime the argument takes the low road and off of the topic of the real issues that matter to all of us, then it is a deplorable act. But that is the nature of politics. And you must remember, all of this hatred is coming from the pundits and supporters of Hillary and Obama…lets keep this in perspective.

If you do decide to stay home, just my opinion, you would do a dis-service to Hillary’s campaign. I don’t possible see how giving any form of support to Mccain in the general election serves the democratic party or serves the type of campaign Hillary is running. I think she would be ashamed to know her supporters would turn their backs on the party just because their candidate didn’t win. I guess if Mccain wins in November because many like minded so-called democrats want to pout and stay home because their pick of candidate didn’t win then I guess we can kiss our economy goodbye and expect the Iraq war to continue. I am praying that it doesn’t happen, but if it does I hope you keep in contact because many of us will want to thank you for doing your part to help the party.

We ended up with Bush for eight years not because the American people thought the process was fair. We ended up with Bush for eight years because the american people tend to vote on a handful of issues depending on what section of the map you live on. In 2000 Bush was elected because the country was just tired of Bill. And even with the fiasco in Florida, the minor note that is never mentioned…had Al Gore won his state of Tennessee, he would have been President. If you can’t even win your own state in the presidential election, then chances of you winning the oval office are slim. In 2004, america was caught up in the war and gay marriage and that is what put Dumbass back in the office again..and the state we should thank for that, Ohio! The Average american has to not allow divisive issues like gay marriage, affirmative action, etc rule the ballot box. And the one issue that hasn’t even been brought up yet, which is bound to be a general election issue: Illegal Immigration. Watch the republicans push this issue in Ohio, Pa, and Florida.

I agree with you, none of us should settle…all of us have our choice but only one side can win. My argument is to you and the hillary supporters. Whomever the democratic nominee is, we have to make sure we are united behind that candidate to take on John Mccain. I don’t think anyone expected the dogfight between Obama and Hillary, and the sight of seeing both candidates tear the other apart is a struggle to view everyday. But you have two sides trying to make history…but making history shouldn’t come at the expense of tearing the other down to the point of hate. And that is where both of these campaigns are..and it is sad to see.

This isn’t my first time in this process, this will be 16 years of volunteer campaigning and I can tell you that I am sure you have been lied to, so have I, so have many of us…if we weren’t lied to we wouldn’t be in Iraq right now. We wouldn’t have a president that can tell us to our faces that the U.S. economy is looking positive when all of us know the contrary. This is what politicians do, many of them lie to get elected. So I say good for you for being active…and I hope you are reaching out to other voters and getting them just as energized as you are.

I may support another candidate than you, but I can assure you that when the dust settles and whomever the person is left standing I will support that candidate. Because the alternative isn’t acceptable of another 4 years of Bush foolishness. The question is can the Hillary and Obama supporters grow up at the end of this mess and come together, because we need one another to put a democrat back in the oval office.

“I don’t know when our country became obsessed with making people into superstars. Yes, I would like my leader to be likable but it is far down on my list of characteristics for a president especially after the last 8 years.

I say:
DON’T SETTLE!
America the beautiful is not that deep…this is why we ended up with Bush in office Twice…because the average American voter was believeing that the process was fair.

At this point who ever screams the loudest and has the most power connections win.

This is my first time being totally involved in the process and I am sorry to report that the powers that be, Party officials/County Chairs, etc. are behind Hillary and Barack’s campaign opened the door to the boardroom…exposing a lot of Monkey Doodle Foolery! Voter suppression, disenfranchisement…I have been lied to my face by the county chairs at the county convention and if we did not have a Senator who was looking out for our best interest we would have been locked out of the process. So excuse me if I can’t take it anymore.

Obama Supporters are trying to organize and scream for change over the madness… and obvious substantiated lying should be a deal breaker.

Obama 08′

Like I said I was very disappointed at the sniper story .I don;t think she has ran the best campaign at all and a lie like that is damaging. But, we have to ask ourselves (as Hilary supporters) why would she tell that lie?

Being under sniper fire speaks to being tough (like a man). Does that not make sense to you.? I don’t think it’s right but I understand as a woman why she felt the need to seem strong enough to withstand a situation like sniper fire. Honestly, there are so many other ways that I think she could show her ability to be resilient , tough and a real fighter but obviously she thought she needed more…it failed miserably!

She is consistently being attacked on sexism issues. Yes, I admit race has played a card in this race but I reiterate my point that it is not on the same level as sexism. The “iron my shirt” incident was shown on national television and it was ignored. WHY? Because it is more acceptable to be sexist than racist. NATIONAL TV and not a word was said by the commentators or the press. If a line in the sand was drawn at any point it is clearly invisible.

As an African American woman I have been constantly tested on my decision to support Hillary. Just because I am black doesn’t mean Obama gets my support based on his ability to talk a good game.

The popular vote to me is important but the fact that our society seems to be controlled by the media. There are people out there supporting a candidate based solely on sound bites. That to me is very scary. OBAAMA’s momentum across the country is astounding often compared to a “rockstar”. Do I want a president in office because people think he’s some type of god that can do no wrong and isn’t really challenged in his campaign? I don’t think so. But, my vote is one of millions and it has already been cast.

OBAAMA supporters have done and said things to me on posts and in person that I find to be deplorable. If you want to support your candidate fine. But, don’t think you are morally superior or at least that your candidate has no faults. I stand by my decision to not vote in the general election but I wish the party the best of luck in November if Obama should win.

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.

I left out the criminal aspects of the illness, only because Mrs. Clinton has not displayed these characteristics publicly…but the others pretty much fit according to what I’ve seen.

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Hillary Example: Taking shots and drinking in public (unbecoming for someone who wishes to be President)I hope this is not what she does on a regular basis…

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Hillary Example: They way she has mercilessly attacked Barack Obama a fellow Democrat…who is quite worthy of becoming the next President…to her he is an instrument to be used.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as “their right.”

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

ergo: Bosnia, Colombia, Canada story

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

***
Victims who have escaped her web: Bill Richardson, John McCain,

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

****
crying before the New Hamshire Primary (I was not the only one who saw that piece of work)

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others’ feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

****
has plenty contempt for Barack…expressed in her many attacks of him….like he is scum and not worthy to be near her in this race. This is her attitude and her reactions. Not dignified.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

*****
One day saying its an honor to be here with Barack in this race and then the same or next day attacking him and saying his supporters are dillusional.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet “gets by” by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

****
Fired from a job in her early career because of lying and falsification
So says her boss on the House Judiciary Committee during the Watergate hearings, Jerry Zeifman. I haven’t had time to digest it all, but Ed Morrissey reports on a column by Dan Calabrese that is based on Zeifman’s account, supported by his own contemporaneous notes:

When the investigation was over, Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of recommendation – one of only three people who earned that dubious distinction in Zeifman’s 17-year career.
Why?

“Because she was a liar,” Zeifman said in an interview last week. “She was an unethical, dishonest lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality.”

The allegations are explosive, and they come from the one person in the best position to know that they are true, Hillary’s then-boss.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others’ lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Google Sociaopath and anything i’ve talked about here.

This is no laughing matter and I am not disrespecting the mentally ill. Mrs. Clinton is displaying various degrees of the this illness and this is a huge concern to me.

President Nixon was the same type of person and we all know how that ended. Think about who and what you are supporting. If Barack had issues like that I would not be supporting him.

In regards to Bill Clinton, nowhere in my comment did I compare Bill Clinton with being a phony, I stated that during the 91 campaign season he was being labeled a phony in the media by the Jerry Brown campaign and one of the reasons was because of the Gennifer Flowers connection. He was being hammered on his character and anyone that remembers this campaign knows this..that is just a fact. Did that affect the way he ran Arkansas, of course not because he said she said can only get you so far. After he was impeached by the Congress which left a black stain on his legacy, did it affect how he ran the office from that point you bet it did and if you read his autobiography even he confirms that point. To say that none of Bill’s baggage will have negative effects on Hillary is just silly. I don’t think anyone on this page is naive to think that the Republican machine would not go after Hillary for every scandal that arose during the Clinton years and Monica Lewinsky is already being tossed into the campaign. So both Barack and Hillary are going to have to deal with a very negative smear campaign no matter who the nominee for the democrats will be.

What is astonishing is this statement that you made: I can see why she needs to embellish or make up such stories. She is in a position where she is constantly being tested.

Is she too frigid or too cold?
Is she too emotional?
Can a woman really lead a country?

Are you serious? I am a supporter of Hillary but she didn’t need to embelish because she has more experience than Obama, she shouldn’t have to make up stories at all. All of the candidates are being asked questions about their chances of becoming President. Barack the question is “Is the country ready for a black president?” For Mccain the issue is age, so come on and lets be real here.

I don’t think anyone on this blog would dare say that sexism isn’t rampant in this government, let alone the country as a whole. But so is racism, and I think that if more people made their voices heard after the fool that made the “iron my shirt” comment it would have been a bigger rebuke of such statements and a line in the sand would be drawn.

I am glad that you have decided to become active in the campaign, I am just as active… just as I was active in both of Bill Clinton’s campaigns for President. My comments were not to ridicule Hillary’s stance, I don’t need to rehash what she has completed as a Senator for NY. because I am sure anyone can read her platform and biography. The issue I stated was about Democrats coming together in the end no matter who wins the nomination. That was the point of my posts, not to go down a list of what so and so has accomplished.

“I don’t know when our country became obsessed with making people into superstars. Yes, I would like my leader to be likable but it is far down on my list of characteristics for a president especially after the last 8 years.

I am sure Sen. Biden, Dodd, and Governor Richardson are asking the same question…because the three of these democrats have more experience across the board than either Clinton and Obama. America has becomed fascinated for A woman and a african-american making a run for the office. And if Democrats leave the party it wouldn’t be because they were not democrats in the first place. They are leaving the party if the nominee chosen didn’t have the popular vote, and pledged delegates at the end of the day and is chosen by the establishment of democrats….that would be the reason Democrats leave the party.

in the words of b.scott himself NO MAAM, NO MAAM!!!!

Your implication that Hillary Clinton suffers from habitual lying is really laughable and now to push that further by even bringing the term sociopath to the forefront is actually sad. I made that point to say that you have no credentials (unless you are a psychologist) to make that assessment. And to say it even sarcastically is a disrespect to those that truly suffer from such illnesses. I have an aunt who suffers from bi-polar disorder and I find it personally offensive for you to just throw around these terms.

No back to the subject:

You don’t like her FINE! You think she is not qualified FINE! You actually confuse me because you say in a previous post that she might be a nice person and a sociopath simultaneously!! This speaks to ine of my issues about OBAAMA supporters. You see I recognize my candidate is far from perfect and you seem to think yours can do no wrong. The Rev. Wright debacle, the Canadian NAFTA mess, the OBAAMA’s lack of charity and oh yes let’s not forget about Tony
Rezko !

Originally Obama said he was an associate he barely knew. Then he said Oh yeah I know him he raised about $50K for me and then he low and behold the man turned out to have been his biggest supporter at the time and raised nearly $275,000 wow and you claim to not know who this dude is? But, wait he helped you buy a house…interesting.

Let’s go to the Scorecards:

1. Hillary has the Colombia issue and Obama has Canada

2. Hillary has the Sniper Story and Obama has Rev. Wright.

Let me take a moment to break this down for you:

Hillary “fantasizes” about being under fire what many have said is an outright lie. Who does this hurt other than her credibility?

Obama has been attending a church for 20 years and had a mentor that makes outrageous remarks against the United States and just spewing pure hate. Obama initially made a claim he never ever was in Rev. Wright’s presence when he made these highly inflammatory comments. But, wait it’s not over Obama makes a national speech on race (cue the camera panning over to people shedding tears from the inspirational words of wisdom) and admits he did hear his revrend make these very polarizing remarks.

You preach unity yet your mentor preaches hate…hmmmm!!! My point is that this incident will have an immediate effect on Obama’s campaign. He is once again isolating people in this country that are still undecided about this race.

4. 750,00 vs. 275,000 to their respective campaigns…and they both “forgot”. Seems to be pretty even on the lies at this point.

But you would never know it because OBAAMA is untouchable or at least he was up until a few months ag when the media was called out for favoring coverage on Senator Obama!

If you need links to some of these lies by the golden boy some even featured on YOU TUBE of all places (YES, Thank God for You Tube) let me know and I will be happy to post them for you.

You see princessoftheworld you are not morally superior and neither is your candidate. Politics is a business and GUESS WHAT politicians lie and have been doing so for YEARS. I have followed this campaign for a long time and am well read on both candidates. I don’t even think about McCain although maybe I should because he is getting a free pass in the media with this struggle in the Democratic Party!

Lastly, let’s just remember that although Senator Obama is in the lead with delegates there are almost as many people of all parts of life and ethnicities that stand up for Senator Clinton. Our voices count whether you choose to believe it or not.

I have no respect for Mrs. Clinton as she has no respect for the truth, rules or laws. She does not represent my set of values and does not speak my language and millions of Americans from all parts of life and ethnicities are protesting her run for the presidency. She shows no respect to us the American voters by easily lying about her trip to Bosnia…that was a fantasy and she was busted on YouTube of all places (Thank God for YouTube)…then her husband who obviously does not communicate with her and is so out of touch did not even realize that she had been caught in a huge lie, he then repeated the lie with passionate flare I might add, saying that the media blew it our of proportion. Both of them, when caught in the huge lie did not apoligize they just laugh it off like ok so i lied…this is a problem minamony…one that i don’t cavelary look pass. Habitual liars get no pass with me…America has woken up and personally i’ve seen enough…just my opinion though. I strongly disagree with any arguments you make for the Clintons. Bill Clinton was a great President and he made many embarassing mistakes, that unfortunately have cost his wife a dignified chance to be President. Without him in the picture though, she just does not stack up and you know it. Her entire foot in the door is because of her marriage to Bill Clinton. She is probably a capable person and more than capable of being the President…but all the baggage and dishonesty is covering the skills I believe she may have…America has been embarrassed enough and we need vision and change…which Mrs. Clinton sadly does not offer.

I am going to assume your comment was directed at me rather than hilltop who was not a part of this current conversation. OBAAAMA supporters seem to think their chosen one is perfect and everything he does and says is golden. I am a realist and this is politics do people lie? YES each and everyone of them lies even (cue heavenly music) OBAMA.

His latest comments made in the setting of some very rich supporters in San Francisco are downright offensive and show his true colors. Believe me when I tell you with just a few words he has swung the votes of many people in the key states of Indiana, North Carolina and most importantly Pennsylvania.

The funny thing is the lies or mistakes you cite aren’t even the real reasons people won’t vote for Senator Clinton. I have talked to hundreds maybe even close to a thousand people and women will say “She should have left Bill!” and men will say “A woman as a president …I don’t thinks so”. I even had one kind woman say I love everything about Barack and in return I asked what about his thoughts on policies? “I love all of them” was her response. Really and who should be his running mate? her response…OPRAH. Now if that ain’t delusional I don’t know what is.

The fact that you implied Senator Clinton actually has a mental illness shows the lack of respect you have for what I consider to be very real health issue. But, as an OBAAAMA supporter I don’t really expect anything better than that. Why can’t you people make a point without making grandiose statements such as yours about mental illness or using foul language. It is people like you that continue to push me in the direction of not supporting Senator Obama. I have no problems debating why I vote for my candidate but I refuse to engage in a war of words for people who do not truly respect my freedom of choice.

Lastly…I certainly hope your psychic friends you consult with don’t have visions like the character on “That’s so Raven”! On the show she usually only sees a small part of a vision and often it turns out to be only partially true. You may just see Barack winning the Democratic nod….but if he wins (and after recently alienating many “bitter” Americans” ) he will have a very difficult time beating McCain.

So I leave you with the words of another famous democratic presidential hopeful “KEEP HOPE ALIVE”!!! (Jesse Jackson, 1988 Presidential campaign)

PS In the future when referencing the country it is spelled COLOMBIA rather than COLUMBIA which is like the University here in NYC Just looking out for a sister Best of luck with the rest of our campaign!!!

I find it interesting that you chose to compare Bill Clinton with being a phony and referenced the Gennifer Flowes issue…to me that is a personal issue between husband and wife. Did that affect the way he ran Arkansas, did Monica Lewinsky have an affect on that huge surplus we had when he left office? The truth is none of these issues matter because Hillary is the one running for President not Bill. People need to find a way to separate the two. I know Hillary isn’t perfect, the sniper story was disappointing but at the same time I can see why she needs to embellish or make up such stories. She is in a position where she is constantly being tested.

Is she too frigid or too cold?
Is she too emotional?
Can a woman really lead a country?

This race is riddled with sexism and racism but clearly one of them is talked about more than the other. Overt racism is not considered acceptable in America especially as it relates to African Americans. But, sexism is whole different beast and is rampant in all occupations. Politics is not the only place we see sexism but this campaign has highlighted it for me personally.

A man at an event that Hillary attended held a sign “iron my shirt” and wasn’t even called out by the media. But, you better believe if it had said “pick my cotton” or ’shine my shoes” it would be all over the news.

I state all this to stress the point that I can understand why Hillary is the way she is. Do I like the way she has to run her campaign? NO! Would I have run it a little differently? YES! Does that mean she is less qualified because she lied about being under sniper fire ? NO, and that was the essence of this post.

I have chosen to stand behind my candidate to the point where i have been on the campaign trail. I have made probably hundreds of phone calls to Pennsylvania residents and had very interesting discussions with Obama supporters. Why do I say they are delusional or at least a portion of them? Many of them can’t tell me one valid reason why they support Obama. Other than the fact that he inspires me. That is all well in good but come January it’s going to take a hell of a lot more than inspiration to turn this country around.

I know you say that Clinton and Obama agree on about 97% of the issues but when I hear him talk it’s rarely about real issues. He is talking about change and hope and making promises of a new tomorrow. But what I want to know is how you plan on doing that.

On the opposite end of the spectrum Hillary has very detailed plans and proposals about what she wants to do and in many cases she has even outlined how she will pay to get those things done. Yes, maybe it’s a little bit of over thinking but after 8 years of “no” thinking I will take that any day.

I am happy to say that being on the campaign trail has allowed me to sway the people who are undecided. I acknowledge Hillary may not be the most likable candidate but she is who she is and we know what we are getting. Maybe if our country were in a better condition I would be willing to take a chance on Senator Obama but that is not the case. his lack of experience in Washington would normally be refreshing because then he isn’t tainted. But, we need someone who is well-connected both on the domestic and international fronts. As a former 1st lady Hillary is known in both these circles. Is she adored and loved like Sneator Obama …no but she is well respected and highly regarded. One example is that of John Edwards wife who does not like Hillary personally but came out and clearly stated that Hillary’s plan is the best ut there and is truly universal. I am sure she didn’t want to admit it but she respects Hillary’s work and regardless of her tendency to be cold she knows ow to get a job done.

I don’t know when our country became obsessed with making people into superstars. Yes, I would like my leader to be likable but it is far down on my list of characteristics for a president especially after the last 8 years.

Lastly, I could never see myself being a Republican…maybe an Independent but never a Republican!!! If people leave our party to become Republicans then they probably weren’t real Democrats in the first place.

I remember in 1992 when Bill Clinton ran for president, I was a volunteer on his campaign in Michigan. Bill Clinton ran on the same platform of change that Barack was running and his main competition was Jerry Brown. And everyone called Bill a phony as well and keep in mind he had a scandal with Gennifer Flowers…I am so glad that the people that doubted his candidacy came to their senses in the face of what the choice the country had with another 4 years of poppa Bush. We are at those same crossroads again. I can tell you this much, I have read both Hillary and Baracks platform…they are both almost 97% the same. I can assure you that if Hillary does not win, her campaign would have been in vain if we take this stance that if my pick doesn’t win the party should suffer. I don’t think she would want us to abandon the democratic party in that way. Just as I would want the Obama supporters to rally around Hillary (Because lets be real, Hillary is going to have a hard time beating mccain as well without this youth turnout and the african american vote just as Obama will have a hard time without women over 45). I don’t think the Obama supporters are delusional, that is the point of elections. Both candidates strike a chord with the masses of people that inspire them to get up and make their voices heard. I would lay the claim of delusion on the voters that put this current president in office another 4 years to run this country into the ground with a congress that has no backbone to stop him.

I would urge you that we are democrats….and we need to stick together in the end to take on Mccain. You not voting for the democratic nominee takes away our chances and if you truly believe in Hillary, she would not want that of any of us. I would say to you, look at the economy, the housing market, the iraq war, the morale of our country…can we continue on another 4 years of that? The ultimate betrayal of the democratic party would be to sit on our ass and not vote in the general election and hand the Oval Office over to the republicans just because our pick for the democratic nomination didn’t win the nomination. If Democrats do that in November, you are going to see a lot of disillusioned democrats leave the party to never return.

I welcome you bringing some sanity to the conversation about the democratice race for president. I openly support Hillary and I would say 80 % of the Obama supporters I meet are what I call “delusional” (if you would like further explanation let me know I have plenty of examples) and rude to a point that I no longer engage in conversations with them. The horrible name calling and outright lies they spew disgust me to a point where I can not see myself supporting Obama.

The truth is that in 2004 when I voted for John Kerry only because he was the Democratic nominee that I would not go to the polls again unless I truly believed in and supported the candidate. My daily decisions are often guided my intuitions and unfortunatley Senator Obama strikes me as a phony and his most recent comments about average Americans speaks to that. BUT, I want to clarify that just because I don’t vote for Obama if he is the chosen candidate does not mean I will vote for McCain. I will just not vote at all or possibly write in Hillary’s name.

I am absolutely horrified at the thought of another 4 years under a Republican but it continues to look like it is becoming a reality.

I have two friends that are supporting either Obama or Hillary and they have both said that if their candidate doesn’t win that they will vote for Mccain! I hope that none of you that are on this website posting are dumb enough to do that. I am going to back whomever the democratic nominee is, because this country can’t stand 4 more years of the same policies. I hope that the democrats can pick a nominee before the convention, if not, then history may repeat itself and democrats are doomed in November.

I do not think I offended anyone. Well, let me take that back… I know I did not offend anyone. According to Tina Fey and SNL, Hillary is a bitch and she seems to embrace being called one because there was no objection from her nor her camp. Remember the ‘bitch is the new black’ crap? Anyway, you were right.. I am not worthy of your comment… you should have kept it. Have a great day! lol.

I only engage in conversations with those who have respect for others and their viewpoints. you calling Hillary a B@#$H is unnecessary and part of the reason why I despise Obama supporters and would never vote for him in the GE. But, he won’t need my vote because you best believe McCain will win if Obama doesn’t come up with a better strategy besides being able to give “inspiring” speeches!

At this point I no longer consider your viewpoints worthy of comment.

If you tell it ONCE, it can be a “misstatement”.

If you continually repeat it every chance you get, discredit a person who was there (Sinbad) when they call you on it and don’t change your story one bit until videotape surfaces…it’s a LIE!!

Now to say…”Oh, I just misspoke” when all the while she was beating that Bosnia drum to death to hype her foreign policy experience, is yet another LIE!!

I’ve lost what little respect I had for Hillary Clinton!

To B. Scott – yes, I believe she lied. I share the same sentiment as a couple of other posters who spoke on the lengths she seems to be willing to go to become president. I liked Sen. Clinton – I voted for her to become Sen in NY, but ever since the first round of debates in this presidential race, I have not been feeling her at all; it was like a switch was flipped and she all of a sudden rubbed me the wrong way.

At the end of the day all politicians lie. For me, it’s just a matter of what the lie is about, and I think that lying, pardon me ‘misspeaking’ about the Bosnia situation is touchy, especially when we are at war right now. Also, to blame misspeaking on being tired just goes to show that maybe she wouldn’t be as prepared to answer the phone at 3am like she claimed. Anyway, the lord be with us all because this race is a one big migraine.

It wasn’t anything major like exaggerating about Bosnia.

Obama advisers/Obama claimed they never had a conversation with Canadian authorities regarding NAFTA. I think the jist of it was that they claimed whatever criticisms Obama made about NAFTA was just “political posturing” and that Canada shouldn’t be nervous about rengotiating NAFTA.

Anyway the Obama campaign denied the conversation for about a day or two then wehn Canada released an official statement about the meeting they copped to the conversation.

I know crazy right? Hillary “lied” about being under fire years ago and the Obama campaign “forgot” about a conversation and then remarkably remembered having the convo over the course of a couple of days…so weird!!!!

You might remember this because apparently the media claimed it was the main reason Hillary won by such a huge margin in Ohio which is one of the states most affected by NAFTA.

I know it is a rarity that the media calls out the Obama campaign so the fact that you don’t recall this incident surprises me. Other than the Rev. Wright debacle it is one of the few times the Obama campaign had to dal with “real” questions from the media.

You may have forgotten because he didn’t get to give a speech about it afterwards.

No biggie..like I said A CHANGE GONNA COME SOOOON!!!

What discussion with Canada are you speaking about?

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHVEDq6RVXc

CHANGE GONE COME SOOOOONNNNNNN!!!!!

What really happened is on tape and can’t be disputed. She is a LIAR and she’s shady. She has told this lie on numerous occasions. Not to mention others. She even has a fraud case pending in the Superior Court of California at this very moment. You can check for yourself at the Superior Court of California Official Website. Here’s the link:

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/civilCaseSummary/index.asp?CaseType=Civil

Make sure you type in the following case number:
Case # BC304174

This woman is trying to get to the white house at all costs. The democratic party is suffering behind her greed. She’s not concerned about this country, she is concerned about herself. She is on a power trip. I’m all for a woman as president but not HILLARY!!! I will never vote for her lyin’ ass.

Let mw point out the reasons I referenced “The Chosen One”…I mean OBAAAAMA

#1 I brought up the NAFTA debacle becasue the OBAAAMA campaign basically lied and said they never had the discussion with Cnada and then come to find out that they did (please see link in my previous post)

#2 Last time I checked Obama is a politician …not a GOD people proclaim him to be. He is no different than other politicians in Washington DC. Lying and Exaggerating the truth is a skill they must have to succeed in the world of politics.

#3 So overall I was making comparisons to the current list of candidates running for president. I don’t dwell on McCain becasue the Republican party means nothing to me and I very rarely follow them in the newsor media.

But, let me make note that the article I did link in my prior post talks about Hillary, Obama and McCain and their tendency to either lie or exxagerate.

Did my explanation help head honcho?

@thatboyd, it looks like your comment was taken down because as usual it has no relavence to the conversation.

DOUBLE KISSES

I have never been under sniper fire, I am sure if I were it wouldn’t be something that I’d soon forget let it be 1, 4, 7, or even 12 years behind. That’s just not something you forget… Now the President travels with nearly 200 person security detail (which includes local authorities) so I am sure when the first lady travel’s it’s a fraction of that (maybe 50) do you think they’d let her get out of a plane or even land if she were under sniper fire? C’mon be real. Think… Now you can still support her based upon her “qualifications” but I believe this only serves as a severe assasination to her character but doesn’t necessarily mean she’s not the best qualified…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqQ6PYcKseM